1. Isa (isabela.lina@gmail.com) 2020/09/19 22:19
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Hey, you translated it, nice!
And you found out about "eflak" ;)
Good!
So --- don't you think that the span of time in which both Mehmed and Radu were together is longer than 1451 - 1462? Just check: "If we can find a chance to live on the doorstep of our love, our home will be the heights of heaven". That means that his love's home is in the mountains, Eflak. And it is known that Radu leaves Istanbul, and settles in Bucarest. That was his home from 1462 till his death (c. 1475).
My personal opinion, that is, that they remained a couple even after Radu became voivode, seems to be corroborated by these verses. Avni/Mehmed would have sought to live close to his love if he just could settle in Wallachia! But, of course, that was not possible.
2. * (sergeevna2@yandex.ru) 2020/09/20 15:56
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>>1.Isa
>And you found out about "eflak" ;)
Yes. At the time of translating this verse I was thinking about our previous discussion.
>My personal opinion, that is, that they remained a couple even after Radu became voivode, seems to be corroborated by these verses.
But, according to historical facts, since 1462 Radu had been visiting Turkey not often - just once a year, in autumn.
3. Isa (isabela.lina@gmail.com) 2020/09/21 02:59
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>>2.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
>>>1.Isa
>
>>My personal opinion, that is, that they remained a couple even after Radu became voivode, seems to be corroborated by these verses.
>But, according to historical facts, since 1462 Radu had been visiting Turkey not often - just once a year, in autumn.
Yup, I know that letter addressed to Stephen "why dont you come yourself, like the ruler of Wallachia does". But I missed the september detail....?
Anyway, just look at 'Veyis': the last couplet has "devlet" on it. And Nur Dogan & his English translator missed it. For Ottomans, "devlet" is, in a way, always written with a big D! Devlet is the Ottoman State. Why should the translators ignore the word?
They do, because the verse would have a very different meaning!
Here:
"Avni, your dreams have come true and your love is your guest."
Heck I dont have an Ottoman dictionary, but I know that "mihman" means 'guest'. Adding to that the "devlet" word, it should roughly be:
Avni, (your love is a) *guest in the State*. ("your love", BTW, is an addition by the trabnslators --- they add & take away like craze)
So, adding to that the fact that this "guest" stays only for one night ("bir gice"), and the fact that it is historically know that the ruler of Eflak went to Istanbul at least once in the year, here we have a story!
Figurative poem my foot! :D :D
The addressee has a name and a surname (and what a surname)
So, closing this up, why in good heavens would Mehmet write such a doleful & passionate poem for someone he had an affair with for 10 years, and who now is gone to hiking in the Carpathians, and (as per sources) goes once a year to fill his treasury up & just leave? Impossible! There was sentiment involved. They must have kept the relationship going on somehow (maybe like we do when we date people living away from us). These people were humans. Ok, they were Mediaeval humans, but humans anyway. There is more to that story. Not in normal primary sources, because it was strictly personal, you see.
That's my idea.
4. * (sergeevna2@yandex.ru) 2020/09/25 15:23
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>>3.Isa
>>>2.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
>>>>1.Isa
>Yup, I know that letter addressed to Stephen "why dont you come yourself, like the ruler of Wallachia does". But I missed the september detail....?
We have lots of letters sent by Radu to many people, but not in September. It seems that in September he had some kind of vacations for going to Turkey.
The only letter dated September was written at the year 1473 when Mehmed went to war and couldn't meet Radu in Istanbul, so there was no sense for Radu to come to Turkey that year.
>They must have kept the relationship going on somehow (maybe like we do when we date people living away from us). These people were humans. Ok, they were Mediaeval humans, but humans anyway.
I believe that after 1462 Radu could come to Turkey more often than once a year, because Mehmed accustomed to Radu and couldn't say goodbye at once, Mehmed should be missing him. But after 1465 Mehmed found a new favorite - Hass Murad Pasha.
5. * (markysha72@mail.ru) 2021/04/05 12:24
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Непонятно - как он так противился, что даже ранил султана ))) а потом сам (?) стал его любовником ))) Тот вероятно ему посулил много чего - и тот уже знал - за что конкретно будет стараться )))
6. * (sergeevna2@yandex.ru) 2021/04/05 23:03
[ответить]
>>5.Жуков Сергей Александрович
>стал его любовником )))
Возлюбленным. Любовником не был никогда.
А психологию поступков Раду не объяснишь в двух словах. Я две повести про это сочинила, но иногда мне кажется, что мало))
7. * (markysha72@mail.ru) 2021/04/07 09:11
[ответить]
>>6.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
>>>5.Жуков Сергей Александрович
>>стал его любовником )))
>Возлюбленным. Любовником не был никогда.
Это как? ))) Платонически что ли? )))
8. (sergeevna2@yandex.ru) 2021/04/07 23:01
[ответить]
>>7.Жуков Сергей Александрович
>>Возлюбленным. Любовником не был никогда.
>
>Это как? ))) Платонически что ли? )))
Любовник в данном случае - активное начало. Возлюбленный - пассивное. Кто б ему позволил быть активным началом!
9.Удалено владельцем раздела. 2021/04/12 12:26
10.Удалено владельцем раздела. 2021/04/14 23:40